DJ VARMA in conversation with well-known environmentalist Dr. David Suzuki

Dr. David Suzuki has been a campaigning environmentalist for the past 30 years. His book on genetics is the most widely used textbook in US and Europe. He hosts the science documentary Nature of Things which is watched in 30 countries. Other successful TV programs produced by Dr. Suzuki are From Naked Ape To Super Species and It's A Matter Of Survival. He has written 30 books including bestsellers Metamorphosis and The Sacred Balance. Apart from numerous international awards, he has 14 honorary PhDs from universities in USA, Canada and Australia.

Q. On a scale of 1 to 10 - 1 being bad and 10 being good - how would you mark the way we are looking after our ecosystem?
A. I would mark it only a 1.

Q. Greenhouse gases like carbon dioxide are heating up the world. The developed work produces 75 percent of these gases. The US with 4 percent of the population generates 25 percent of all CO2 emission, while India is responsible for only 3 percent. How serious is the problem?
A. The problem is so serious that we have had record floods and hurricanes in the Pacific Islands. We are having record sea level rise with one of the islands being hit by a 25- metre wave. A lot of abnormal things are happening in nature. We are finding salmon in the arctic for the first time. Birds like robins and sparrows and insects are also migrating to the arctic. All over the world the indigenous people are complaining about how the heat is affecting them negatively.

Q. How much would have been gained if the US had signed the Kyoto Climate Control treaty in 1997? The US seems to be very intransigent on the environment.
A. The US lobbied Canada very hard not to sign as well, but Canada signed last year. Australia is showing solidarity with the US. We are hoping Russia will sign and make it a legal document. I think US is an ecological bandit committing atrocities against nature. They should be taken to a court of law.

Q. You are one of the world's leading geneticists. The US seems to be trying to control the GM market. What are your thoughts on genetically modified food?
A. Again, it's the power of big business. American company Monsanto has a lot of clout with the US government. The US and Canada are pushing GM food madly. I have no doubt that genetic engineering will play an important role in the future.

But I am ashamed of my scientific colleagues who are rushing out with GM products without proper research. The truth is that we do not know the long term effects of eating GM plants and animals and their by-products. Don't stop the research, but right now it has no place outside laboratories.

Q. The UN says 17 million acres of rainforest is cut down every year. How will this affect us and can it be reversed?
A. No one knows how to regrow a forest. When logging companies tell us that they can recreate a forest, what they mean is a plantation. A plantation is not a forest. A forest is community of organisms, all of which we have not identified let alone understand. Only nature and time can create a forest. People have starting thinking they are so smart that they do not need nature. We are biological creatures and need forests to give us clean air. If we destroy the bio-diversity we will pay a very heavy price.

Q. You are quoted as being impressed by India managing to protect approximately 18 percent of its geographical area which is forested, while many developed countries have only managed to save 6 percent. Who were the Indians who impressed you?
A. I admire Arundhati Roy for her courageous stand on Narmada. Also, Medha Patkar is a great hero. In January, I met Dr. Mishra who is trying to save the Ganges and was very impressed. Vandana Shiva is a good friend and has done lots of good work fighting GMOs and bio-piracy. India has many such eco-heroes.

Q. What are the things that India should watch out for? A. I fear that India is trying to copy the economic model set by the Europeans and North Americans. We cannot grow our economies indefinitely.

If India uses our energy policies they will produce a massive amount of green house gases. When I was in India in January, Delhi was covered in a fog. The air pollution in north India was terrible. Air, water, soil and sunlight are sacred elements and should not be treated as we have done in the western world.
Yet, your leaders are determined to ape us in this respect. The Ganga is a god for the Hindus and yet has an ecoli count about 300,000 times the acceptable limit. It is so polluted that I feared some water would splash in my mouth and I would drink it. Dr. Mishra is telling Hindus that Ganga is like our mother and we should not put all our waste in it.

Q. What is the time in history that people tipped the balance against nature? Was it the start of the industrial revolution?
A. People have always been destructive when moving into new areas. When people came into North America towards South America, they killed off all slow moving mammals. Because of our brains and the ability to invent weapons we have exploited the environment and killed off many species. But then people learnt that we cannot keep doing this and have to move into a balance. With the industrial revolution in the last 150 years, we have changed out environment in a major way.

Q. In the 18th century, the world population was 1 billion and now it is 6 billion plus. Do you think that a fertility rate of 2.1 percent would stabilize the population problem?
A. I asked Edward Wilson from Harvard, one of the world's leading experts, about the number of people that earth can sustain. He felt that the world can sustain only 200 million people the way people live in North America. We have to reduce our consumption in the western world. I have no doubt in my mind that the rate at which we are using nature's life support systems will result in a catastrophic destruction of people and species.

Q. You are quoted as saying that men, especially in positions of money and power, are least likely to change, and that mothers and children will be at the forefront to positive change in the environment. Indian women often say that men are used to mothers and later wives cleaning up after them.
A. Women are very concerned with nurturing and what will happen to their children. It is no accident that most of leaders of environmental movements are women. My wife often says that women know that when people make a mess they have to clean it up. We need more of the feminine mentality view of the world. Women who have got into power have had to function like men to succeed in the political world. Women like Indira Gandhi and Margaret Thatcher were actually like men in their value systems.